Where to come in on a MK2 1680?

[Ascari_2]

Hi all.

So I have an opportunity to pick up a '77 MK2 white 1680 on bracelet for under $10k. This is a model that I don't have and would love to add to the collection. But I also have to be $ contentious and if money was no object a nice 1680 would have been in the watch box a long time ago.

I will post some pics in a bit, but here's what I see so far:

• Dial - good condition with light melon patina
• Hands - closely matching patina on lume but tarnished/coroded metal finish
• Crystal - needs replacement
• Bezel insert - MK3 heavily faded to blue/gray but missing pip
• Case - average / above average polish with minor dings consistent with use and service over the years; chamfers are no longer defined and are instead rounded
• Serial and ref nos. - heavily worn down but still readable

Not really concerned about the condition of the movement since I will be servicing the watch myself and can easily sort out the mechanicals.

Overall this is far from a safe-queen and instead looks like a watch that was honestly used for its intended purpose.

Considering all this and the current state of the overall market, what price brackets would you place on

1: Overpriced
2: Fair value
3: Good deal and you'll be hard-pressed to find better
4: You're an idiot if you don't buy it

Thanks in advance.

[Dan S]

Photos are a much better way to judge condition than your descriptions. Value is extremely sensitive to condition, and our judgment might not be the same as yours. No bracelet or papers, I assume.

[Ascari_2]

Sorry for the quality of the photos, but this is all I have for the time being. Hopefully it can give all of you some ideas of what we're talking about.

And no papers, but includes the bracelet as pictured.








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[Dan S]

Thanks for the photos. The bracelet adds value and the watch looks legit at first glance, but the condition of bezel, insert, and case is definitely below average. I am seeing a poor case, with overpolished bezel ring, lugs and crown guards and a damaged insert. I can see the appeal, but only at a low price point. Also, my experience has been that watches that have been abused like this have probably never been serviced, so I would not be surprised if some repairs were needed. $10k is not a crazy starting place for negotiation, but IMO, this is not the kind of watch that people would fight over at that price.

Obviously you should do your own valuation research, but as one data point, I recently bought a very good 1680 with box and papers for about $12,000 in a competitive auction. Obviously auctions are not for the faint of heart, and the risk leads to better prices, but I would not pay $10k for that watch; that's just my subjective opinion. I would never pay up for a lesser example. At $8k, I could see some appeal. You could service it, replace the crystal, and wear it as a beater.

[Ascari_2]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Thanks for the photos. The bracelet adds value and the watch looks legit at first glance, but the condition of bezel, insert, and case is definitely below average. I am seeing a poor case, with overpolished bezel ring, lugs and crown guards and a damaged insert. I can see the appeal, but only at a low price point. Also, my experience has been that watches that have been abused like this have probably never been serviced, so I would not be surprised if some repairs were needed. $10k is not a crazy starting place for negotiation, but IMO, this is not the kind of watch that people would fight over at that price. Obviously you should do your own valuation research, but as one data point, I recently bought a very good 1680 with box and papers for about $12000 in a competitive auction.

Thanks, Dan. I share a lot of your sentiment on this piece. I'm mostly curious about what price brackets you, and others here, would assign to the four categories that I listed in my original post given what's on the table.

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[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Ascari_2

Thanks, Dan. I share a lot of your sentiment on this piece. I'm mostly curious about what price brackets you, and others here, would assign to the four categories that I listed in my original post given what's on the table.

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I guess I would have to say overpriced, because of the condition. If you like it, offer $8k and take it from there. I don't think somebody is going to grab it at $10k.

[Ascari_2]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I guess I would have to say overpriced, because of the condition.

Sorry, I meant to ask what price brackets you think would apply to each of those categories. For example above 9k overpriced, 8k-9k fair, $w-$x good deal, and $y-$z crazy deal.

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[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Ascari_2

Sorry, I meant to ask what price brackets you think would apply to each of those categories. For example above 9k overpriced, 8k-9k fair, $w-$x good deal, and $y-$z crazy deal.

Haha, are you joking? Don't over-analyze it. If you like it, make a deal and buy the watch.

[996marty]

Only you can decide what it’s worth to you but I’d say the information you have already had is spot on, start low on any offers is sound advice

[dhknola]

4
4
4

[dhknola]

The more I read Dan's analysis, I think I should edit my 4 response.
2 years ago 10k would have been a steal for this, but case condition is rough and he is spot on about 8k being safer for this.
I have to be honest, I am not a case or chamfer guy, to me it's the dial and bezel on subs and this one is nice there.

[Ascari_2]

Thanks, all.

Dan, while I appreciate the "if the watch speaks to you, get it" approach, I also find quite a lot of pleasure in the 'hunt.' For me, being able to find a fantastic deal certainly adds to the allure of a watch. And no, I am not trying to take advantage of some elderly guy who doesn't know what he has ... the watch is being sold through a jewelry store. I equate this to basically doing your research before buying a unique used car and getting a feel for the market. I would venture a guess and say that most here have 'value' as one of their criteria when buying any watch, so why not do your research to be in a better position to talk numbers with the seller.

[Ascari_2]

Thanks, all.

Dan, while I appreciate the "if the watch speaks to you, get it" approach, I also find quite a lot of pleasure in the 'hunt.' For me, being able to find a fantastic deal certainly adds to the allure of a watch. And no, I am not trying to take advantage of some elderly guy who doesn't know what he has ... the watch is being sold through a jewelry store. I equate this to basically doing your research before buying a unique used car and getting a feel for the market. I would venture a guess and say that most here have 'value' as one of their criteria when buying any watch, so why not do your research to be in a better position to talk numbers with the seller.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Ascari_2

Thanks, all.

Dan, while I appreciate the "if the watch speaks to you, get it" approach, I also find quite a lot of pleasure in the 'hunt.' For me, being able to find a fantastic deal certainly adds to the allure of a watch. And no, I am not trying to take advantage of some elderly guy who doesn't know what he has ... the watch is being sold through a jewelry store. I equate this to basically doing your research before buying a unique used car and getting a feel for the market. I would venture a guess and say that most here have 'value' as one of their criteria when buying any watch, so why not do your research to be in a better position to talk numbers with the seller.

Where did I criticize you for trying to get a good deal? You should definitely do research, e.g. using other sales and auction results, etc. I'm not sure it's realistic to ask every expert on OF to fill out a poll for you.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Ascari_2

Thanks, all.

Dan, while I appreciate the "if the watch speaks to you, get it" approach, I also find quite a lot of pleasure in the 'hunt.' For me, being able to find a fantastic deal certainly adds to the allure of a watch. And no, I am not trying to take advantage of some elderly guy who doesn't know what he has ... the watch is being sold through a jewelry store. I equate this to basically doing your research before buying a unique used car and getting a feel for the market. I would venture a guess and say that most here have 'value' as one of their criteria when buying any watch, so why not do your research to be in a better position to talk numbers with the seller.

Where did I criticize you for trying to get a good deal? You should definitely do research, e.g. using other sales and auction results, etc. And I actually gave you my thoughts on value, so I don't know what you're complaining about. I'm not sure it's realistic to ask every expert on OF to fill out a poll for you.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Ascari_2

Thanks, all.

Dan, while I appreciate the "if the watch speaks to you, get it" approach, I also find quite a lot of pleasure in the 'hunt.' For me, being able to find a fantastic deal certainly adds to the allure of a watch. And no, I am not trying to take advantage of some elderly guy who doesn't know what he has ... the watch is being sold through a jewelry store. I equate this to basically doing your research before buying a unique used car and getting a feel for the market. I would venture a guess and say that most here have 'value' as one of their criteria when buying any watch, so why not do your research to be in a better position to talk numbers with the seller.

Where did I criticize you for trying to get a good deal? You should definitely do research, e.g. using other sales and auction results, etc. And I actually gave you my thoughts on value, so I don't know what you're complaining about. I'm not sure it's realistic to ask every expert on OF to fill out a poll for you. That's not research.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Ascari_2

Thanks, all.

Dan, while I appreciate the "if the watch speaks to you, get it" approach, I also find quite a lot of pleasure in the 'hunt.' For me, being able to find a fantastic deal certainly adds to the allure of a watch. And no, I am not trying to take advantage of some elderly guy who doesn't know what he has ... the watch is being sold through a jewelry store. I equate this to basically doing your research before buying a unique used car and getting a feel for the market. I would venture a guess and say that most here have 'value' as one of their criteria when buying any watch, so why not do your research to be in a better position to talk numbers with the seller.

Where did I criticize you for trying to get a good deal? And I actually gave you my thoughts on value, so I don't know what you're complaining about. You should definitely do research, e.g. using other sales and auction results, etc. I'm not sure it's realistic to ask every expert on OF to fill out a poll for you. That's not research, IMO.

[dhknola]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/314804323765

Just for comparison sake this one is similar...

[Ascari_2]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Where did I criticize you for trying to get a good deal? And I actually gave you my thoughts on value, so I don't know what you're complaining about. You should definitely do research, e.g. using other sales and auction results, etc. I'm not sure it's realistic to ask every expert on OF to fill out a poll for you. That's not research, IMO.

Not sure why the accusatory tone. In all of my post I simply asked for people's feedback and explained my reasons for doing so. I also appreciate your thoughts on the subject. If anyone else wishes to volunteer their two cents with more or less granularity, I will be thankful for that just as much. But no where am I making anyone give me valuations against their will or voice any complaints, and the only reason I asked you for clarification was because it seemed like you misunderstood my question in the first place.

Ultimately, I value this forum because it has a collection of individuals who are amongst the most knowledgeable in the vintage Rolex field and I suspect this knowledge goes beyond just the physical characteristics of the watches. Hence my post asking looking for information. If people are willing to give their thoughts on the subject, that's great. And if not, then I thank them for their time. It just seems that our opinions of what qualifies as research might diverge a bit.

[Ascari_2]

Originally Posted by dhknola

https://www.ebay.com/itm/314804323765

Just for comparison sake this one is similar...

Thanks for that. I did come across it and it's a good point of reference.

[R44]

I wouldn’t buy at any price. In the future when you come to sell you are going to have to find someone who is willing to accept numerous very large compromises with that piece. Buy a great condition watch that you will enjoy wearing every time you wear it. I’ve been collecting a while but I only keep watches I can (and will) actually wear. I also have experience of buying the ‘wrong’ watch - one example is a GMT with a lug I wasn’t completely happy with the thickness of which annoyed me virtually every time I wore it. The lugs on your 1680 look awful and generally the watch is battered. There are great watches out there especially popular models they sold lots of like the 1680. I have a white and a red as I like the model so much.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by R44

I wouldn’t buy at any price.

Ditto, unless it was dirt cheap and you were going to part it out. The patina on the dial/hands looks nice, assuming it's original. That's where the appeal ends for me. There are too many nicer examples available. This is not a rare watch.

It's a cliche, but true .... Always better to overpay for a great example than underpay for a mediocre (or worse) example. Bargain-hunting vintage Rolexes rarely goes well.

[dhknola]

Maybe you can print this forum discussion out and present it to them to help get the price down.
The more it is discussed, 10k is a no good, but to invert things, what is a good price for this? If OP said it was 5-7k, do opinions differ?
This watch is a beater for sure, but a great beater if the price works.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by dhknola

Maybe you can print this forum discussion out and present it to them to help get the price down.
The more it is discussed, 10k is a no good, but to invert things, what is a good price for this? If OP said it was 5-7k, do opinions differ?
This watch is a beater for sure, but a great beater if the price works.

I think it's totally personal taste for a watch like this. You mentioned that the watch had some appeal to you because you focus more on dial and hands, which is totally fair. I know from his previous posts that Aaron puts a lot of emphasis on the condition of the case. TBH, the case is too far gone for me as well. But as I mentioned above, I believe that there would be buyers for this watch at $8k and maybe even $9k. So I don't know how low the seller would plausibly be willing to go. Hence my previous advice to the OP about making an offer and taking it from there.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by dhknola

Maybe you can print this forum discussion out and present it to them to help get the price down.
The more it is discussed, 10k is a no good, but to invert things, what is a good price for this? If OP said it was 5-7k, do opinions differ?
This watch is a beater for sure, but a great beater if the price works.

I think it's simply a matter of personal taste for a watch like this. You mentioned that the watch had some appeal to you because you focus more on dial and hands, which is totally fair. I know from his previous posts that Aaron puts a lot of emphasis on the condition of the case. TBH, the case is too far gone for me as well. But as I mentioned above, I believe that there would be buyers for this watch at $8k and maybe even $9k. So I don't know how low the seller would plausibly be willing to go. Hence my previous advice to the OP about making an offer and taking it from there.

[Ascari_2]

R44, Swish77, thanks for the comments and you both have a good point. This one would definitely be one to wear and it's also one that I could see wearing if gotten at the right price. Yes bargain-hunting vintage Rolexes can been seen as an equivalent to looking for unicorns, but it can happen (speaking from experience) and to me that's part of the allure.

[Ascari_2]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I think it's simply a matter of personal taste for a watch like this. You mentioned that the watch had some appeal to you because you focus more on dial and hands, which is totally fair. I know from his previous posts that Aaron puts a lot of emphasis on the condition of the case. TBH, the case is too far gone for me as well. But as I mentioned above, I believe that there would be buyers for this watch at $8k and maybe even $9k. So I don't know how low the seller would plausibly be willing to go. Hence my previous advice to the OP about making an offer and taking it from there.

Thanks, Dan. That's quite helpful and reinforce my approach to this piece.

[R44]

Look if you can live with the watches faults and enjoy wearing it then I say go for it if you can get it at the right price. The watch isn’t for me but who says I’m right, I like perfect and in some cases almost new old stock looking vintage. Love patina watches when they are other peoples but wouldn’t buy that look to own and wear. My requirements mean I’ve had some long searches to find the right watches.

[swaini3]

I'd pass on this example OP. I like thick cases and focus on dial and hands condition but with older watches (than this one), I'd be less picky. You'd find better condition ones with some patience and I would pay more.
The example on ebay is too expensive (service dial / later insert) IMO.

[tekno]

The spring bar is coming through the left lug.


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