How to verify authenticity of Rolex "full set" minus original certificate

[FrançoisCzapek]

If someone offered a Rolex "full set" minus original certificate, there's a lot of advice here that says you can buy this subject to an appropriate discount if you trust the seller. The missing certificate is not the biggest deal in the world and should not stop you.

Let's say you get this from an established gray market dealer in Singapore or Hong Kong, so authenticity is not likely an issue. Let's say you are dealing with a higher end Rolex like a platinum Daytona or Day Date or something rare. Then let's say the dealer offers a servicing receipt instead of the original certificate, something old advice here views very positively.

In this case, do you ask to take a copy of the servicing receipt and confirm its authenticity with the local service center, assuming it was serviced locally? Is there anything to do, or do you just make a decision and buy given the above scenario?

I understand that the missing certificate should not be an issue if the seller is trustworthy, but I am trying to understand the logistics of making a purchase where the original certificate is not included.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Define “original certificate” please.

[KatGirl]

That service certificate may have the previous owner’s name on it, and you may be able to establish provenance of the watch by contacting the owner. Other than that, it just states the watch was serviced. If serviced by RSC, that would indicate authenticity, as they will not service a non genuine Rolex.

Kat


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[KatGirl]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

Define “original certificate” please.

That confused me too. Older Rolexes had a paper with all the watch’s info, rather than the cards we have now. I am assuming that’s what the OP means. Not sure what the rest of the full set would include besides the boxes, instruction manual for model and tags, all of which you can get on eBay.

Kat


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[77T]

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

If someone offered a Rolex "full set" minus original certificate, there's a lot of advice here that says you can buy this subject to an appropriate discount if you trust the seller. The missing certificate is not the biggest deal in the world and should not stop you.

Let's say you get this from an established gray market dealer in Singapore or Hong Kong, so authenticity is not likely an issue. Let's say you are dealing with a higher end Rolex like a platinum Daytona or Day Date or something rare. Then let's say the dealer offers a servicing receipt instead of the original certificate, something old advice here views very positively.

In this case, do you ask to take a copy of the servicing receipt and confirm its authenticity with the local service center, assuming it was serviced locally? Is there anything to do, or do you just make a decision and buy given the above scenario?

I understand that the missing certificate should not be an issue if the seller is trustworthy, but I am trying to understand the logistics of making a purchase where the original certificate is not included.

Way too many hypotheticals.
Way too complicated.

It's the watch that matters.

All the rest of the collateral can be cobbled from various sources to "invent" a full set (less the original docs).


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[996marty]

Lots of unknowns in your questions
You mention full set but if it’s missing something then is it a full set?
You need to expand on what is missing for me it’s a little vague

[FrançoisCzapek]

Not a complicated question. Let's say I'm presented by a store with the above ?which means I obviously cannot contact the actual seller), and the watch was sold around 2010 (15 years ago).

It is missing the original warranty card but the store is providing a recent servicing receipt instead.

What do you do before buying? Verify with the service center that the receipt is authentic? Or nothing, if the store is credible?

[KatGirl]

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

Not a complicated question. Let's say I'm presented by a store with the above ?which means I obviously cannot contact the actual seller), and the watch was sold around 2010 (15 years ago).

It is missing the original warranty card but the store is providing a recent servicing receipt instead.

What do you do before buying? Verify with the service center that the receipt is authentic? Or nothing, if the store is credible?

I’d say “nothing”, if the store is credible.

Kat


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[FrançoisCzapek]

Thanks very much. Then by how much would you adjust the price given the above papers? If all is in order I would just assume the original owner sold lower so as not to give the certificate with his name on it.

[Sublovin]

The amount of mind space that people give this kind of stuff is wild! What “logistics” are you trying to figure out?? If it’s real and you trust them, but the watch and enjoy your discount. If you want reassurance, send it in for an overhaul upon purchasing and you will get a fresh service, travel pouch and warranty card.

[Harry-57]

If there is a doubt there is no doubt. If you can't buy the seller or have any suspicion about the authenticity of the watch, don't take the risk. No amount of discount can offset risk that you will be ripped off.

[FrançoisCzapek]

Well, if you've never considered this before and have no idea how it works, you might want to ask right?

If there's a missing certificate then there's always at least a tiny doubt somewhere. I literally don't know how to mitigate it (if possible) for Rolex.

The first time I ever bought a real watch, it was a Patek with papers and even then the seller humored me by having the service center inspect the watch in front of us. It still makes me nervous to press a button on your phone and send someone tens of thousands of dollars, even if it's an established store.

[996marty]

I think you might be over thinking it.
If you like the watch and the seller has a good reputation then I don’t see any issues. If it makes you feel better you could post pictures on here and get feedback?
I see you’re in Singapore if that’s where the watch is and you are in doubt about it you should have options as the market there is usually awash with some great watches.

[Sgooter]

If your seller is an established grey dealer, then the deal sounds OK if the "servicing receipt" is from an official RSC and the receipt's details match your watch's model number and case serial number. Another detail often overlooked is whether the watch comes with the full set of bracelet links.

[joli160]

The original certificate is the only thing that matters and makes or break a full set

[77T]

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

If someone offered a Rolex "full set" minus original certificate, there's a lot of advice here that says you can buy this subject to an appropriate discount if you trust the seller. The missing certificate is not the biggest deal in the world and should not stop you.



Let's say you get this from an established gray market dealer in Singapore or Hong Kong, so authenticity is not likely an issue. Let's say you are dealing with a higher end Rolex like a platinum Daytona or Day Date or something rare. Then let's say the dealer offers a servicing receipt instead of the original certificate, something old advice here views very positively.



In this case, do you ask to take a copy of the servicing receipt and confirm its authenticity with the local service center, assuming it was serviced locally? Is there anything to do, or do you just make a decision and buy given the above scenario?



I understand that the missing certificate should not be an issue if the seller is trustworthy, but I am trying to understand the logistics of making a purchase where the original certificate is not included.

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

Not a complicated question. Let's say I'm presented by a store with the above ?which means I obviously cannot contact the actual seller), and the watch was sold around 2010 (15 years ago).



It is missing the original warranty card but the store is providing a recent servicing receipt instead.



What do you do before buying? Verify with the service center that the receipt is authentic? Or nothing, if the store is credible?

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

Thanks very much. Then by how much would you adjust the price given the above papers? If all is in order I would just assume the original owner sold lower so as not to give the certificate with his name on it.

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

Well, if you've never considered this before and have no idea how it works, you might want to ask right?

If there's a missing certificate then there's always at least a tiny doubt somewhere. I literally don't know how to mitigate it (if possible) for Rolex.

The first time I ever bought a real watch, it was a Patek with papers and even then the seller humored me by having the service center inspect the watch in front of us. It still makes me nervous to press a button on your phone and send someone tens of thousands of dollars, even if it's an established store.

If you don't call this train of thought over-complicated, then I'm perplexed.

Maybe I should say "conflicted"?

So - the short and easy answer in my opinion is
"Find another Rolex that is a full set."


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[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

Well, if you've never considered this before and have no idea how it works, you might want to ask right?

If there's a missing certificate then there's always at least a tiny doubt somewhere. I literally don't know how to mitigate it (if possible) for Rolex.

The first time I ever bought a real watch, it was a Patek with papers and even then the seller humored me by having the service center inspect the watch in front of us. It still makes me nervous to press a button on your phone and send someone tens of thousands of dollars, even if it's an established store.

With all due respect, you are sucking every ounce of fun out of what should be an enjoyable hobby.
Pretty sure I already answered your question. Send it to Rolex for an overhaul. They won’t service your watch if it isn’t real, and it will arrive with a fresh service.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

If there's a missing certificate then there's always at least a tiny doubt somewhere. I literally don't know how to mitigate it (if possible) for Rolex.

There is only one answer, the only way to mitigate your tiny doubt is to buy a new Rolex from an AD. Short of that how can you ever truly know.

[padi56]

I

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

Well, if you've never considered this before and have no idea how it works, you might want to ask right?

If there's a missing certificate then there's always at least a tiny doubt somewhere. I literally don't know how to mitigate it (if possible) for Rolex.

The first time I ever bought a real watch, it was a Patek with papers and even then the seller humored me by having the service center inspect the watch in front of us. It still makes me nervous to press a button on your phone and send someone tens of thousands of dollars, even if it's an established store.

The so called papers in most cases are just a outdated warranty like you get with most electrical products today.And in the real world these so called papers are far easier to fake than the watch.So never rely on papers proving authenticity of any watch unless bought from a 100% reliable source.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

Well, if you've never considered this before and have no idea how it works, you might want to ask right?

If there's a missing certificate then there's always at least a tiny doubt somewhere. I literally don't know how to mitigate it (if possible) for Rolex.

. . ..

It sounds like you believe that "papers" are all you need to authenticate a watch. Papers can be just as counterfeit, perhaps more so, than the watch and so it is the actual watch that needs authenticating, not whatever papers is has.

Many, if not most, watches for sale in the secondary market and street shops do not come with old or outdated certificates. Finding a watch with all the other stuff can likely mean that it has been cobbled together of non-original accessories to make it more attractive to some shoppers who like that stuff.

[FrançoisCzapek]

"you believe that "papers" are all you need to authenticate a watch"

But I'm in Singapore

[996marty]

As mentioned by others who I’m sure are now going blue in the face BUY A NEW WATCH if it’s the papers you crave

[trackingtime]

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

"you believe that "papers" are all you need to authenticate a watch"

But I'm in Singapore

lol, i am from singapore. if you're so afraid, buy one with papers/cards.
unless you're looking for a strong price reduction because there's no original papers etc.

buy the seller, if not pony up the cash or don't buy one at all.

[trackingtime]

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

Not a complicated question. Let's say I'm presented by a store with the above ?which means I obviously cannot contact the actual seller), and the watch was sold around 2010 (15 years ago).

It is missing the original warranty card but the store is providing a recent servicing receipt instead.

What do you do before buying? Verify with the service center that the receipt is authentic? Or nothing, if the store is credible?

you're free to bring the watch to RSC but they won't be able to authenticate for you unless you send in for a service.

that's about it

[trackingtime]

Originally Posted by padi56

I
The so called papers in most cases are just a outdated warranty like you get with most electrical products today.And in the real world these so called papers are far easier to fake than the watch.So never rely on papers proving authenticity of any watch unless bought from a 100% reliable source.

100% agreed

[FrançoisCzapek]

If you read the earlier posts, I'm really not asking whether it's okay or not to buy a watch with incomplete papers.

So is there some gauge on how much of a discount one should expect in the situation described?

[Tools]

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

If you read the earlier posts, I'm really not asking whether it's okay or not to buy a watch with incomplete papers.

So is there some gauge on how much of a discount one should expect in the situation described?

Technically speaking, no, "marker price" is market price and not driven by accessories but by condition. There is no discount or way to develop one for used watches.

You should always take an excellent condition watch without papers over a mediocre example with, if only price is the consideration. Papers should never make a thrashed watch desirable.

Some here think papers are worth a couple hundred and others a couple thousand, and still others who say they won't buy without papers no matter what.

A modern watch meant to be worn daily would likely be in the zero area for papers while a rare Red or other collectible could be in the thousands if the example is mint. What the "full set" sellers are trying to do is maximize interest as this increases their pool of potential buyers, not the actual value of their product.

I'm sure comments will find some that think you should take off the price (discount) of a service too, but that's not how it works.

[Oldfellow]

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

If you read the earlier posts, I'm really not asking whether it's okay or not to buy a watch with incomplete papers.

So is there some gauge on how much of a discount one should expect in the situation described?

I don’t know about a discount range, but I am fairly confident that a discount will not ease your mind with the concerns you have. Good luck with your decision.

[kopi-c]

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

If someone offered a Rolex "full set" minus original certificate, there's a lot of advice here that says you can buy this subject to an appropriate discount if you trust the seller. The missing certificate is not the biggest deal in the world and should not stop you.

Let's say you get this from an established gray market dealer in Singapore or Hong Kong, so authenticity is not likely an issue. Let's say you are dealing with a higher end Rolex like a platinum Daytona or Day Date or something rare. Then let's say the dealer offers a servicing receipt instead of the original certificate, something old advice here views very positively.

In this case, do you ask to take a copy of the servicing receipt and confirm its authenticity with the local service center, assuming it was serviced locally? Is there anything to do, or do you just make a decision and buy given the above scenario?

I understand that the missing certificate should not be an issue if the seller is trustworthy, but I am trying to understand the logistics of making a purchase where the original certificate is not included.

Where in Singapore are you buying the watch from?
Walk down to RSC, and maybe you can confirm if the Rolex is legit.

[KatGirl]

I would not buy that watch. It’s very suspicious that it’s a “full set”, but missing the most important document. That doesn’t make sense. Why would the previous owner keep the unimportant bits, but discard the proof of authenticity. Find another example. My 2 cents,

Kat


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