Why so unloved - Offshore Tourbillons 26288/26388

[conkers]

So I own both of these (with the rose gold model having the ceramic bezel upgrade). I love them but genuinely interested in the community’s views on why they are so unloved? RG can be had for 100, platinum not much more and one platinum version sold at Phillips below 100 recently.

Surely a huge amount of watch for the money?

Too big? Too heavy? Not attractive? No offence will be taken!

[nazarian]

I have a 43mm regular offshore and genuinely think it’s beautiful. Plus the quick change strap makes it fun to switch up and not get bored. But I have to admit I feel like it’s a bit bulky for no real reason and makes it tough to wear with certain outfits. I was really hopeful that with the non chrono they just released it would be a thinner version.

Those are great watches you posted but I’m not sure they feel like 100k watches especially with what I described about the offshores in general.

I’m a huge fan but hoping for tweaks in the future. Just my opinion.

[conkers]

Originally Posted by nazarian

I have a 43mm regular offshore and genuinely think it’s beautiful. Plus the quick change strap makes it fun to switch up and not get bored. But I have to admit I feel like it’s a bit bulky for no real reason and makes it tough to wear with certain outfits. I was really hopeful that with the non chrono they just released it would be a thinner version.

Those are great watches you posted but I’m not sure they feel like 100k watches especially with what I described about the offshores in general.

I’m a huge fan but hoping for tweaks in the future. Just my opinion.

Good feedback and certainly the size makes them unsuitable for a big chunk of the addressable market.

[nazarian]

I think the removal of the chrono buttons makes it more symmetrical and visually appealing. Maybe it will revive the line?

[HMHM]

I don’t think there is anything wrong with the watches per se. It is just a matter of different trends at different periods. Another 10 years down the road, bigger watches like the ROO may become the “hot” watch again.

Now, personally, having experienced the ROO in the form of the diver, it is a “brute” watch, meaning the statement it intends to make is loud and exuberant, in your face with its bulky case. In that sense, it is less refined than the offerings of other brands like the OF Daytona and PP Aquanaut. I can wear the OF Daytona and the Aquanaut with a formal attire, but the ROO can’t do the same I feel. I also disliked the strap of the ROO and much prefer the size-to-wrist straps of the OF Daytona and Aquanaut.

[conkers]

Interesting. I very rarely try to match watch with outfit or occasion. Offshore are my staple go to watch. My wrist isn’t huge (7.25”) but I am 1.96 tall so I guess I can carry a bigger watch more easily.

But that’s generic feedback to Offshores - I am wondering why someone might pay 60k for the latest 43mm End Of Days vs 100k for one of these beasts.

[dchang81]

I remember years ago any offshore complication like the perp went for super cheap (relatively speaking) at auction. I always assumed the offshore line has a limited audience. I let my themes go because it was a bit clunky tho the new ones seem to wear a bit better with the strap angle. The one you posted is amazing I do think it's a relative bargain

[conkers]

Originally Posted by dchang81

I remember years ago any offshore complication like the perp went for super cheap (relatively speaking) at auction. I always assumed the offshore line has a limited audience. I let my themes go because it was a bit clunky tho the new ones seem to wear a bit better with the strap angle. The one you posted is amazing I do think it's a relative bargain

Yes indeed a huge amount of watch for the money if one can carry the size IMHO.

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by conkers

Interesting. I very rarely try to match watch with outfit or occasion. Offshore are my staple go to watch. My wrist isn’t huge (7.25”) but I am 1.96 tall so I guess I can carry a bigger watch more easily.

But that’s generic feedback to Offshores - I am wondering why someone might pay 60k for the latest 43mm End Of Days vs 100k for one of these beasts.

Because the EoD is associated with Arnold. And Arnold is simply the genesis of the offshore.

I know we are not taking about offshore in general and more specifically about the pieces you have, but the Arnold factor and the colour combination of EoD is simply “chef kisses”. It embodies everything an Offshore should be since the beginning - a cool rubber strap Chronograph with funky colours. I must say that the EoD is my favourite Offshore design, especially the original one.

[Bazil]

Looks like a wall clock on the wrist, not sure no love obviously you love it so that’s all that counts, we all need to be different wear different watches otherwise how boring would life be, one man’s treasure is another’s trash ..

[conkers]

Originally Posted by HMHM

Because the EoD is associated with Arnold. And Arnold is simply the genesis of the offshore.

I know we are not taking about offshore in general and more specifically about the pieces you have, but the Arnold factor and the colour combination of EoD is simply “chef kisses”. It embodies everything an Offshore should be since the beginning - a cool rubber strap Chronograph with funky colours. I must say that the EoD is my favourite Offshore design, especially the original one.

Originally Posted by Bazil

Looks like a wall clock on the wrist, not sure no love obviously you love it so that’s all that counts, we all need to be different wear different watches otherwise how boring would life be, one man’s treasure is another’s trash ..

Thanks. Very big watches for sure. The latest End of Days is surely a nice piece. Just don’t like the price!

[gregouille]

My personal point of view on this is:
- Yes offshore are definitely not for everyones taste. There are quite thick and big (and you can add heavy in PM)
- The « issue » with tourbillon watch, in general, is you paid a lot (at retail) for not much added to the watch. Of course the history behind it and the complexity of it is very cool. However it doesn’t bring something like perpetual calendar, minute repeater etc.

Also for me it doesn’t make much sens to have such a sporty watch (Offshore) with a something as refined as a Tourbillon.
If I’ll would go for a tourbillon it would be on a classic VC or A Lange etc. Or perhaps the ultra thin jumbo but not even sure…

[Bazil]

Originally Posted by conkers

Thanks. Very big watches for sure. The latest End of Days is surely a nice piece. Just don’t like the price!

They may be, but again personal preference, some people like a big watch .. it’s all about the individual ..

[Bazil]

Take Richard Mille … mahoosive and look like a toy from the fair or McDonalds happy meal , but people pay hundreds upon hundreds of thousands for them and swoon over them ..
Again, if we all wear the same it would be boring, individuality has its part to play …

[conkers]

Thanks everyone. Tourbillon on a sports watch fair comment. Even more extreme example of that would be Blancpain 50 Fathoms Tourbillon or RM25 - even crazier for a dive watch to have a tourbillon.

[Pfang56]

Originally Posted by conkers

So I own both of these (with the rose gold model having the ceramic bezel upgrade). I love them but genuinely interested in the community’s views on why they are so unloved? RG can be had for 100, platinum not much more and one platinum version sold at Phillips below 100 recently.

Surely a huge amount of watch for the money?

Too big? Too heavy? Not attractive? No offence will be taken!

Those tourbillons are really outstanding and may be some of the best values out there! Amazing you have one of each - they must be hyper rare!

Honestly, I think many of the 44mm offshores in precious metals are probably too difficult to pull off for most of the population. I think when I started to collect over 20 years ago I would embrace wearing heavy sports models (Panerai probably made me get used to it), but I've been a sucker lately for Titanium and Ceramic. If you look at RM, I get a sense they are also pulling the trend towards lightness and thinness being more desirable...

Maybe in a few years the interest will tip back into PM models, as there is really something about "feeling your money's worth" with >300g of haute horologerie on your wrist!


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[fsprow]

Gerald Genta, designer of the Royal Oak introduced in 1972, reportedly did not like the Offshore when he saw it. It doesn’t work for me but glad it does for others.

[lucasalce]

I've tried the rosegold model before and it's big.
I like big watches but without the wrist for it, it's not comfortable to wear.
Regarding the tourbillon, I feel the upper bridge is covering too much, hiding the playfulness of the tourbillon.
Interior angles on the bridges are much to be desired but that may be an aesthetic decision by the designers.
The rosegold case is special though with their evacuated design.

100k for an AP tourbillon chrono plus APRP movement is a great deal.

[conkers]

Thanks for the latest comments. My original question was specifically around the value proposition of these two models as opposed to Offshore 44mm wearability per se. Some good input and thoughts - thank you. For me, assuming one had the wrist/size to carry off a 44mm Offshore, and assuming I had the funds available, these represent very good value compared to a standard chrono. Good comment about the bridge - it is very bulky and does hide the carriage somewhat. Finishing is decent I would say - perhaps not quite at the same level as some of my other high end pieces - and missing some of black polishing found elsewhere for example, but very good nonetheless.

[J.T.]

I'd likely be a buyer for a PT version at that price point. I love the size and weight of the 44mm.

[HL65]

Personally Roger, I think they represent tremendous value given the delta between it and standard 44. I think they are cool watches and best representative of the 44’s for sure. So they fit well in your collection and you wear them well. Hope you are well my friend! I had lunch with Andrew B in Sarasota a few months back. Such a small world! Cheers, K

[Armis]

If I had known and had access to the platinum version, then absolutely that would be a target! As far as the EOD, as an owner, this was driven by my looking for a ROO ceramic piece (since I missed out on previous 44 ceramics cases) and I fell for the colorway. Irrespectively, I have been hoping AP would release another platinum ROO, but no luck. The only platinum ROO I was aware of is the previous blue dial with white subdials, but I don’t like this enough to purchase. But your platinum piece with tourbillon is unique and very good value. It just seems really rare. The gold piece also impresses greatly, if not more, but I don’t wear gold and therefore am limited. I continue to hope
for future special platinum ROO release.
Thanks for sharing these rare pieces.

[watchman124]

The MSRP on modern ROO Tourbillons are insane - $350k or more. Was offered one but couldn’t swallow that compared to other options in that range.


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[l_chissle]

Originally Posted by conkers

My wrist isn’t huge (7.25”) but I am 1.96 tall so I guess I can carry a bigger watch more easily.

This is it. If I was genetically blessed, I would have an offshore in my collection too!

[conkers]

Originally Posted by J.T.

I'd likely be a buyer for a PT version at that price point. I love the size and weight of the 44mm.

Agreed great value. The recent Phillips one was a crazy price.

Originally Posted by HL65

Personally Roger, I think they represent tremendous value given the delta between it and standard 44. I think they are cool watches and best representative of the 44’s for sure. So they fit well in your collection and you wear them well. Hope you are well my friend! I had lunch with Andrew B in Sarasota a few months back. Such a small world! Cheers, K

Good to hear my friend. All well. Andrew mentioned. Pleased to see you continuing to thrive! Agree on your delta point.

Originally Posted by Armis

If I had known and had access to the platinum version, then absolutely that would be a target! As far as the EOD, as an owner, this was driven by my looking for a ROO ceramic piece (since I missed out on previous 44 ceramics cases) and I fell for the colorway. Irrespectively, I have been hoping AP would release another platinum ROO, but no luck. The only platinum ROO I was aware of is the previous blue dial with white subdials, but I don’t like this enough to purchase. But your platinum piece with tourbillon is unique and very good value. It just seems really rare. The gold piece also impresses greatly, if not more, but I don’t wear gold and therefore am limited. I continue to hope
for future special platinum ROO release.
Thanks for sharing these rare pieces.

Fingers crossed for a new platinum of some description.

Originally Posted by watchman124

The MSRP on modern ROO Tourbillons are insane - $350k or more. Was offered one but couldn’t swallow that compared to other options in that range.

Yep the new prices are eye opening.

Originally Posted by l_chissle

This is it. If I was genetically blessed, I would have an offshore in my collection too!

[TheHolyLuck]

Its a lot of Watch for the price. Even better than complications inside code 11.59 or Concept Line.
This is unbeatable but maybe for collectors with 8+ pieces wich reduce the number of people that could be interested.

[conkers]

Originally Posted by TheHolyLuck

Its a lot of Watch for the price. Even better than complications inside code 11.59 or Concept Line.
This is unbeatable but maybe for collectors with 8+ pieces wich reduce the number of people that could be interested.

I think that’s absolutely right. But they didn’t make too many of either so amazed there aren’t sufficient buyers out there that fall into the (admittedly very tight) profile.

[J.T.]

Originally Posted by Armis

If I had known and had access to the platinum version, then absolutely that would be a target! As far as the EOD, as an owner, this was driven by my looking for a ROO ceramic piece (since I missed out on previous 44 ceramics cases) and I fell for the colorway. Irrespectively, I have been hoping AP would release another platinum ROO, but no luck. The only platinum ROO I was aware of is the previous blue dial with white subdials, but I don’t like this enough to purchase. But your platinum piece with tourbillon is unique and very good value. It just seems really rare. The gold piece also impresses greatly, if not more, but I don’t wear gold and therefore am limited. I continue to hope
for future special platinum ROO release.
Thanks for sharing these rare pieces.

There is a platinum 44mm black dial japan limited edition of 20 I believe. Last I saw priced in the 70k range. A few have been available.

[messikens]

I agree it's a bit of a steal for a PM ROO with a complication but it wouldn't be anyone's first second or third AP choice; it's for someone who already has a large portfolio of a collection.

The 44mm size and thickness makes it a bit niche and you couldn't really pull it off as a dress watch. Personally I'd add that I find the dial a bit too busy and hard to read, while the tourb is covered unfortunately by the bridge to a good extent.

You get a lot of watch for the money but unless you're conkers, $100k gets you a lot of other watches that are probably higher on the immediate "want" list... That's my take why you get such a deal

[conkers]

Originally Posted by J.T.

There is a platinum 44mm black dial japan limited edition of 20 I believe. Last I saw priced in the 70k range. A few have been available.

Indeed. Here’s mine - 10 piece edition. There was a platinum bezel version too but I went with ceramic for practicality reasons.