what are the airlines up to?

[subtona]

My last four consecutive domestic trips (on delta) started on time and without a hitch, however each of the return flights were cancelled.

The cancellation email states that they understand how inconvenient this must be and they readily provide a link if I would like to opt for a refund.

Not sure how that is the conversation when the customer is clearly unable to return home?

Speaking with friends it seems that there are typically (not necessarily with this latest crowdstrike event) plenty of seats available in the near future after the cancellation however those seats disappear within the hour and then prices begin to grow exponentially.

Is it unreasonable to expect the airline that cancelled the flight would include in the cancellation email a list of the next available alternative flights?

It also seems that if the problem is weather or anything specifically that the airline can put the blame on, their interest in assisting the passenger is diminished .

I am suspecting that the airlines are seizing the opportunity to sell available seats at a premium rather than uphold their end of the bargain to bring the passenger home.

Looking for better understanding of what is happening….?

[Krash]

I can’t answer that question because we travel a lot, but that hasn’t happened to us (at least not yet).

I will say that I’m old enough to remember when flying was truly a luxurious, special event.

Now it’s like taking the subway from the 69th terminal to the Kensington section of Philadelphia. It’s awful. People are packed into coach like sardines.

We upgraded to business class on our recent trip to Europe and I still wasn’t happy with the overall comfort of the trip.


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[996marty]

Originally Posted by Krash

I can’t answer that question because we travel a lot, but that hasn’t happened to us (at least not yet).

I will say that I’m old enough to remember when flying was truly a luxurious, special event.

Now it’s like taking the subway from the 69th terminal to the Kensington section of Philadelphia. It’s awful. People are packed into coach like sardines.

We upgraded to business class on our recent trip to Europe and I still wasn’t happy with the overall comfort of the trip.


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Couldn’t agree more with the above comments. Flying used to be fun now it’s just second rate

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by 996marty

Couldn’t agree more with the above comments. Flying used to be fun now it’s just second rate

Wife and i gave up on flying commercial so do as little as possible.

Have you / others here considered cruising? We love it!

[Maleg]

Originally Posted by subtona

My last four consecutive domestic trips (on delta) started on time and without a hitch, however each of the return flights were cancelled.

The cancellation email states that they understand how inconvenient this must be and they readily provide a link if I would like to opt for a refund.

Not sure how that is the conversation when the customer is clearly unable to return home?

Speaking with friends it seems that there are typically (not necessarily with this latest crowdstrike event) plenty of seats available in the near future after the cancellation however those seats disappear within the hour and then prices begin to grow exponentially.

Is it unreasonable to expect the airline that cancelled the flight would include in the cancellation email a list of the next available alternative flights?

It also seems that if the problem is weather or anything specifically that the airline can put the blame on, their interest in assisting the passenger is diminished .

I am suspecting that the airlines are seizing the opportunity to sell available seats at a premium rather than uphold their end of the bargain to bring the passenger home.

Looking for better understanding of what is happening….?

Delta. Say no more. I stopped flying them years ago. Terrible airline for customer service, both on the aircraft and on the phone.

[77T]

Originally Posted by subtona

My last four consecutive domestic trips (on delta) started on time and without a hitch, however each of the return flights were cancelled.

[snip]

Looking for better understanding of what is happening….?

Is it possible that your outbound were in the early AM to mid-AM, and the returns are in mid to late PM?

I can suggest you would be experiencing the crew management and ATC holds that weather can snafu.

In the US we have a travel rebound problem from pandemic lockdowns. The systems across the travel industry are beyond load levels even before the current "CrowdStrike meltdown".

The open market has led to overbooking, overloaded schedules that FAA ATC can't handle, burnout on the ramps and support staff. Even flight crew scheduling is fouled up.

Airlines experience feast or famine cyclically and now the pressures are entering the flight deck itself. The Max situation came about by trying to off-load flight management duties in an emergency because simulator training time was becoming a constraining factor.

Between Boeing's loss of trust, and other executive decisions, I'm surprised we haven't had more mid-air incidents. Thank god for TCAS.

In short things are pretty screwed up.

Soon I expect regulation to return on flight load at some airports. More and more pilots are rejecting some of the hot slides Approach Control is trying.


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[subtona]

Originally Posted by 77T

Is it possible that your outbound were in the early AM to mid-AM, and the returns are in mid to late PM?

I can suggest you would be experiencing the crew management and ATC holds that weather can snafu.

In the US we have a travel rebound problem from pandemic lockdowns. The systems across the travel industry are beyond load levels even before the current "CrowdStrike meltdown".

The open market has led to overbooking, overloaded schedules that FAA ATC can't handle, burnout on the ramps and support staff. Even flight crew scheduling is fouled up.

Airlines experience feast or famine cyclically and now the pressures are entering the flight deck itself. The Max situation came about by trying to off-load flight management duties in an emergency because simulator training time was becoming a constraining factor.

Between Boeing's loss of trust, and other executive decisions, I'm surprised we haven't had more mid-air incidents. Thank god for TCAS.

In short things are pretty screwed up.

Soon I expect regulation to return on flight load at some airports. More and more pilots are rejecting some of the hot slides Approach Control is trying.


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Agree things have been a mess.

My return flights are generally a bit later than my outbound. This could be contributing.

The compounded impact of the delays should be criminal.
Added hotel room/ extended rent a car/ additional meals and all of the numerous customer service emails, phone calls and websites.
Then there is the obligations at home and work that are halted.
Repacking then reunpacking just to do it again the next day.

[hambone1983]

My last flight, on American...

gate agent: that bag is too big to carry on
me: that's fine,I'll just gate check it
gate agent: I'll have to charge you for that
me: charge me for what?
gate agent: for you bag. You can't gate check just to avoid the baggage fee
me: I booked my ticket on an American Airlines credit card. First bag is free
gate agent: why didn't you check your bag downstairs?
me: so I could have this conversation with you.
gate agent: in the future you'll have to check it downstairs
me: you know I've done this a hundred times, right?
gate agent: you win

[hambone1983]

btw, I've had return flights cancelled on me multiple times, most frequently by United in Chicago. Yahoo Travel (back before all these online booking sites) used to publish the on-time and cancellation percentages of every flight. I found out that the connecting flights I was booking out of O'Hare were cancelled over 40% of the time. They did it when there was sufficient space on the first flight or two to your destination and just stranded you a night. Yeah, they put you up in a hotel but you didn't have a change of clothes & probably no deodorant or toothbrush

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by hambone1983

My last flight, on American...
me: that's fine,I'll just gate check it

FRENDLY HEADS UP: In non-USA, such as South America, the gate agent will try to force you into gate-checking so their partner by the plane can go through your bags and steal things.

[Kinnakeet]

I fly often and have never had a return cancelled. Have a return Monday, hope I didn’t jinx myself.

[Shmoopy]

Originally Posted by Krash

I can’t answer that question because we travel a lot, but that hasn’t happened to us (at least not yet).

I will say that I’m old enough to remember when flying was truly a luxurious, special event.

The idea of traveling long distances was still sort of novel, and flying was expensive, so I can see the "special" part of it. But I think there is some cognitive bias at play here, 'cause I don't remember anything luxurious about the experience.

Originally Posted by 996marty

Couldn’t agree more with the above comments. Flying used to be fun now it’s just second rate

See above.

Flying used to suck! I took my first transatlantic flight in 1977 and have flown around 1200 legs since.

You guys don't remember ashtrays in your armrests stuffed with cigarette butts/gum that were rarely cleaned? Filthy bathrooms, too.

Remember craning your neck to watch the one movie being projected on the bulkhead? If you were lucky, channel 1 in English worked, if not, you were watching the movie in Spanish or French. (Through those terrible plastic hose earphones no less.) Or, you could opt for music channels that played the same 8 songs over and over and over.

More drunk passengers acting unruly. Less jetways back then, so more flying to remote stands and then taking a bus to the terminal.

The food was not better. Granted, they served better champagne in the cheap seats, but other than that I don't see anything that was nicer back then, other than maybe the way people dressed. Used to find worms and roaches in food back then. (In business and first class, too, not just in coach.)

-edited to add (thanks to Blanksy) how much louder flights were as well.

I'll take today's experience and lieflat seats over yesteryear all.day.long.

[Blansky]

I hated the noise from those damn propellers.

[Krash]

Originally Posted by Shmoopy

The idea of traveling long distances was still sort of novel, and flying was expensive, so I can see the "special" part of it. But I think there is some cognitive bias at play here, 'cause I don't remember anything luxurious about the experience.


See above.

Flying used to suck! I took my first transatlantic flight in 1977 and have flown around 1200 legs since.

You guys don't remember ashtrays in your armrests stuffed with cigarette butts/gum that were rarely cleaned? Filthy bathrooms, too.

Remember craning your neck to watch the one movie being projected on the bulkhead? If you were lucky, channel 1 in English worked, if not, you were watching the movie in Spanish or French. (Through those terrible plastic hose earphones no less.) Or, you could opt for music channels that played the same 8 songs over and over and over.

More drunk passengers acting unruly. Less jetways back then, so more flying to remote stands and then taking a bus to the terminal.

The food was not better. Granted, they served better champagne in the cheap seats, but other than that I don't see anything that was nicer back then, other than maybe the way people dressed. Used to find worms and roaches in food back then. (In business and first class, too, not just in coach.)

-edited to add (thanks to Blanksy) how much louder flights were as well.

I'll take today's experience and lieflat seats over yesteryear all.day.long.

No I remember it being more luxurious and special. Back in the day, people that flew a lot were considered wealthy and called the “jet set.” But I also smoked back then, too. So that could be factor for me. I actually remember smoking on planes. Now I would literally throw up if someone smoked next to me.

Also, planes were louder back in the day. Especially if you sat next to the engines in a DC-9. It wasn’t a pleasant experience. So I’ll give you that.

It could be perspective though. Back then, I was just getting started and didn’t have a lot money. So maybe it was really exciting for me. Now I have money coming out of my arse and think flying is gross.


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[Blansky]

The 747 I used to take to Hawaii from Edmonton (Wardair 1980s) was a pretty cool flight, with the upstairs lounge.

Since then, lot of flights, some first class, some economy plus (waiting to get sucked out the door) were ok, but aren't what I'd call luxurious.

Probably the only other luxurious flight I've taken was business class to Melbourne from San Francisco with the "beds" (2015).

We got to the San Francisco airport and went to the gate and a lady took us out and down the stairs to the tarmac where we got in a SUV and across the tarmac to the plane, up some stairs and into the cabin. And departed maybe 15 minutes later.

[Maleg]

Originally Posted by Blansky

The 747 I used to take to Hawaii from Edmonton (Wardair 1980s) was a pretty cool flight, with the upstairs lounge.

Since then, lot of flights, some first class, some economy plus (waiting to get sucked out the door) were ok, but aren't what I'd call luxurious.

Probably the only other luxurious flight I've taken was business class to Melbourne from San Francisco with the "beds" (2015).

We got to the San Francisco airport and went to the gate and a lady took us out and down the stairs to the tarmac where we got in a SUV and across the tarmac to the plane, up some stairs and into the cabin. And departed maybe 15 minutes later.

Try Emirates First NY to DXB on the A380. It’s fair chunk of change, but worth it in my opinion. Everything associated with the journey is included in the fare and is a proper luxury service.

Once you’ve flown business or better on Emirates, Qatar Airways, or Cathay Pacific you will dread setting foot on an american owned and operated airline.

[Krash]

One thing for sure is the seats are smaller and closer together. They cram more people into these jets. It’s compounded by the fact that people are now generally larger in both height and weight.


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[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Maleg

Try Emirates First NY to DXB on the A380. It’s fair chunk of change, but worth it in my opinion. Everything associated with the journey is included in the fare and is a proper luxury service.

Once you’ve flown business or better on Emirates, Qatar Airways, or Cathay Pacific you will dread setting foot on an american owned and operated airline.

I don't fly hardly anywhere except Hawaii but when we went to Australia there was a huge backup at customs/immigration and a flock of those beautiful flight attendants from Emirates and their cool uniforms were right behind us for about 45 minutes in line. Sweeeet.

We fly United because my wife has a ton of air miles so the flight was free.

[Maleg]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I don't fly hardly anywhere except Hawaii but when we went to Australia there was a huge backup at customs/immigration and a flock of those beautiful flight attendants from Emirates and their cool uniforms were right behind us for about 45 minutes in line. Sweeeet.

We fly United because my wife has a ton of air miles so the flight was free.

Sadly, about all United gives up front is a better chair. Luxurious experience it is not, but on a long flight it’s enough to keep your body from feeling wrecked when you arrive at your destination.

[hambone1983]

prior to deregulation it cost $1,440 to fly from NY to LA. Therefore, way fewer people used air travel. The number of revenue air miles logged on US carriers is 6 times more now than it was in 1977. More importantly, the average flight back then only had 55% of the seats occupied.

Six times the number of passengers + full flights = a much worse experience