Another question I've wondered about

[Atl]

I LOVE this part of the forum! All the crazy questions nobody seems to know.

Here goes: I understand how a Rolex is regulated with the micro-stella screws, but how hard is it really to get it close to +-1 sec a day? My GMT-II is spot on, but my 2009 brand new Subbie Date is at -6, day in and day out. I just sent it in to Dallas to get re-regulated under warranty. Will they be able to get it close to my GMT?? Is it that hard to get it that accurate? Isn't one screw for whole seconds and another for 1/2 seconds? Would it not be as simple as turning the one second screw +6???

Thanks guys!!

David

[Tools]

Hi David..

No, it's not that simple... and there is more than one screw that has to be done evenly around the perimeter of the balance wheel.. otherwise, it will be out of balance..

It is fairly easy for a watchmaker to set the watch to +- 0. However, what it says on the machine, and how it responds at different positions is not the same.. Proper timing requires that it be observed in the 5 different positions, and then set to the timing that is the best representation of the average..

But, even then, when you move your wrist, or are active, you put centripetal forces on the balance, and it does not oscillate completely as it would laying on a bench, throwing the timing off more..

[Rikki]

There are 2 different size microstella screws on the balance and yes 1 is for 1/2 seconds and one is for full seconds and they have to be moved equally for timing. The tool for adjusting actually has a weight balanced guage inside of it that has hash marks that it points to, that'll get you in the ball park the rest is done by the digital readout on the timing machine to fine tune. Timing is done in full wind 5 positions averaged out as Tools said. Initial adj. is done dial down because you can't work upside down. Once in the machine it rotates in all positions needed for timing.. Rik

[Atl]

Originally Posted by Rikki

There are 2 different size microstella screws on the balance and yes 1 is for 1/2 seconds and one is for full seconds and they have to be moved equally for timing. The tool for adjusting actually has a weight balanced guage inside of it that has hash marks that it points to, that'll get you in the ball park the rest is done by the digital readout on the timing machine to fine tune. Timing is done in full wind 5 positions averaged out as Tools said. Initial adj. is done dial down because you can't work upside down. Once in the machine it rotates in all positions needed for timing.. Rik

Thank you for responding!

David

[Atl]

- .5 seconds !!! I am thrilled!!! Dallas is awesome! My AD on the other hand, Read my Dallas Rocks thread.

David

[Atl]

Strange,
If I lay it on it's side all day, it's 3 sec. a day slow. If I wear it, or store it face up, it's .5 sec. a day slow. My GMT II does not waiver from being 1 sec. slow a day no matter how I lay it. They have the same movement, I don't understand ??

[Tim Wells]

Atl,

I'm a newbie here from Dallas, GA but thought I'd comment here for the first time.

These being the same caliber movement doesn't necessarily mean that they'll perform exactly the same. These are mechanical and as such no two are exactly alike in such small detail that all will be perfectly consistent.

For example, the hairspring temper on your watches while done in the same fashion in batches, each individual piece of steel will react to that heat treatment slightly different and ultimately end up being a "hair" (no pun intended) stiffer or more flexible which is one reason why they are all vibrated when they are mated with a balance assy.

Add that variance regardless of how slight, to all the other factors that weigh into this quest for true isochronism and you'll find that friction from the train and other pivots add up, difference in side and end shake of these pivots, the degree of polish or wear, different types of oils and their resultant viscosities, blah, blah, blah, you get the idea.

Everything in a watch as a sum of it's components, clearances and mass affect this ultimate goal of isocrhronism or the ability to keep perfect time regardless of position, temperature, humidity and a host of other factors.

To get these or any mechanical watch for that matter to keep perfect time is literally impossible so the right materials fashioned in just the right way become a symphony of motion that is regulated to average out these limiting factors to a happy medium if you will, that ends up being the accuracy we all desire in a fine watch. Sometimes you get lucky and one just runs truer than another identical movement.

I had an old pin lever escapement watch in my military days that you could hear a block away, had no jewels in it and it kept better time than any watch I ever owned, go figure. They all have personalities when you get right down to it and some, no matter how much they cost simply run better than others when all those factors come together and cancel each other out to the exact same degree.

[Rikki]

Excellent post sounds as if you have mechanical watch repair experience, I'd like to hear some more Rikki

[Atl]

Me too!!!!

[Tim Wells]

First of all I'm no watchmaker or expert, I have WAY too much respect for the trade and what a real watchmaker is to call myself one. I am a self taught watch repairman and that's about it. However, I used t hang around a couple of real deal watchmakers and asked a LOT of questions.

I started 13 years ago with some old movements, some tools, and a book called "Know Your Escapement" and I read that book until I understood it all.

Only then did I fool with any watches and as a result I wound up fixing watches and specializing in aircraft 8 day clocks as a result. In 13 years I have had one return that wasn't right and it was a Hamilton 992B that I promptly made right and jumped in my plane and flew it back up to an airport near the owner and bought him lunch and didn't charge him a dime... after all it was my goof.

I never forgot that feeling to risk someones trust in my workmanship so I take great pains to see that it never happens again. My simple goal since I am not formally trained and haven't been to WOSTEP, is to do the job in such a way that the results are on par with someone who has had that training. This takes dedication and acute attention to detail and that along with seeing a basket case run well again is what interests me.

The things I mentioned in my first post are universal for any mechanical movement be it a watch, clock, or instrument. There is a lot of info on hairsprings and a lot of it is boring math that can be found in publications from NAWCC or AWI and in books.

To me it's just common sense that something has to overcome all the sources of friction and not just at the time of overhaul but over time or the lifespan of a typical overhaul. Experience with certain movements will help guide you on what you can get away with and what you can't. Accuracy and in particular, longevity of that accuracy is what I strive for.

The only Rolex I've worked on is my own which is apart on my bench clean as a whistle as we speak. I thought about changing the bezel insert since it is blue and fuschia now faded from red but I kind of like the character. I bought a generic thinking it was the same. Well, it's not exactly the same and that isn't good enough so it's of no use.

Watches are precision machines with personalities, that's the way I look at them so I approach them that way. I am an aircraft mechanic by trade and do hand engraving on the side with a few watches or aircraft clocks mixed in now and then.

Like most watch repairpersons, I take every piece of it apart and inspect them, even the big A/C clocks like the Hamilton 37500 with a bazillion parts and clean them in the ultrasonic. Fix what needs it, put back together and adjust what needs it, lubricate appropriately and go through the motions of rating the movement and watching it for a week or two, preferrably in varying temperatures.

Here is a link to a web space I have for posting photos to. I have some before and after shots of a Gruen I repaired for a friend. It was placed in a shaving kit and then into a suitcase and then into the belly of a plane by the gorilla luggage handlers.

Seems a bottle of Old Spice or some such broke open and soaked the watch. It sat that way for who knows how long but you can see the damage it did. It took 3 different movements and their parts plus a NOS balance complete, to put humpty dumpty back together again and it turned out to be a good time keeper. Lucked out!

http://www.pbase.com/ttwells/horology

If this is blasphemous because it's not Rolex related at least in part, please feel free to delete this post and forgive my transgression.

[Rikki]

Nice resto gruen 335? I'm thinking possibly. I started in a similiar way back in 1979 worked on pocket watches waltham and elgin car clocks or plater clocks if you will then studied under a master 1on1 for a year and moved on up to the good stuff. I love the look on someones face when they see grandads watch running and looking lke new after being in a drawer for 40 years. I've been at this profession for 30 years now and wouldn't have it anyother way. If you go to my website www.timecareinc.com and click the photo link bottom right of home page it'll go to photobucket you'll see soem befores and afters. Nice to meet you. Rik

[Tim Wells]

I love your bench area, what a peaceful place to work.

[Rikki]

Yeah I get to watch the birds and squirrels and even Hawks that fly into snatch the morning doves and also keep an eye on the neighborhood. Have great neighbors for the most part we all look out for eachother. When I went to the Daniel Roth Factory in Switzerland when on tour with Henry Fried I loved his setup his building where the watchmakers sit juts out from the side of the main building toward a lake, big windows on 3 sides and a view to die for so when I set up my house I did what I could to emulate his set-up.I start my day at 6:30 to 7 and finish at 8 to 9 usually 70 plus hours a week. Wouldn't have it any other way. Rik

[Brushpup]

Wow Tim, welcome to the forum. After reading your posts, I'll be looking for more I assure you.

Very interesting story Sir.

[Tim Wells]

Originally Posted by Brushpup

Wow Tim, welcome to the forum. After reading your posts, I'll be looking for more I assure you.

Very interesting story Sir.

Thanks for that. Again, I'm not formally trained and certainly no expert, I just try real hard at whatever I do. Glad you were able to glean something useful from my ramblings...