Original dial 1983 GMT Master?

[pnwwatches]

I’m looking for a birth year GMT Master, and this was posted for sale recently on Watchexchange in a post titled “[WTS] Rolex GMT-Master 16750 Oyster Faded Black Insert Stunning Patina 1983 Box/Paper” (Sorry, I’m too new to post links.)

It’s an 8.2m serial from 1983. It must be a service dial, right? My understanding is that the only gloss dial from this era would have been a rare no-date one. This looks like an MK4 or MK5, though I can’t quite make out the serifs to distinguish between the two. I know an original matte dial would be tough to come by, so not necessarily a deal breaker. Would be interested in folks’ thoughts. Thanks.

[springer]

Originally Posted by pnwwatches

I’m looking for a birth year GMT Master, and this was posted for sale recently on Watchexchange in a post titled “[WTS] Rolex GMT-Master 16750 Oyster Faded Black Insert Stunning Patina 1983 Box/Paper” (Sorry, I’m too new to post links.)

It’s an 8.2m serial from 1983. It must be a service dial, right? My understanding is that the only gloss dial from this era would have been a rare no-date one. This looks like an MK4 or MK5, though I can’t quite make out the serifs to distinguish between the two. I know an original matte dial would be tough to come by, so not necessarily a deal breaker. Would be interested in folks’ thoughts. Thanks.

I received a private message regarding this post seen below with my response and a link to the watch.

The seller looks to be reputable and is claiming it is all original. It’s a 8.2m serial and has gloss dial with white gold surrounds that says “Date” on it. Does this look original to you? I thought the dials in this serial range were either matte or the rare no-date gloss dial. Thanks very much for your help.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Watchexchange/s/uPM1OCsQ8H

To the OP:
Your assumptions are correct. If it is a glossy dial, it normally would not read "Date" from 1982. It appears to be a later dial, circa late 1984/85 - 1987. I can't explain the discrepancy. The seller might be confused on how he is dating the watch or the dial was released later than the serial number would indicate. It would be nice to know the serial number and, if there, a date from when it was sold found on the warranty paper.

NOTE: Below, from my collection, is an early "date" dial GMT 16750 from late 1984.

[pnwwatches]

Thanks Springer. The Chrono24 listing for the watch says it has an 8.2m serial. I’ve asked the seller to share the date of sale.

[TuRo]

Yes, last of Mattes or No Date @ 8.2 srl for me.

[pnwwatches]

The seller says the original warranty paper does not include a date of sale (that line is blurred out in the photos for some reason though). But based on the feedback here and what I've seen elsewhere, it appears this would be a service dial, not the dial original to an 8.2m serial. Still a nice watch of course. Thanks again.

[0nly5iv3Digits]

Yep. Early 16750s, like the 16800s, were matte maxi dial. Gloss dial and gold hour marker surrounds indicates service dial. Either that, or the serial provided is incorrect.

[springer]

Originally Posted by 0nly5iv3Digits

Yep. Early 16750s, like the 16800s, were matte maxi dial. Gloss dial and gold hour marker surrounds indicates service dial. Either that, or the serial provided is incorrect.

If fairness to collectors that might be reading this thread now or many years in the future, let me offer my comments regarding your post.

Glossy dials could be found as early as 1982, I've owned four or five and I know of many other forum members that have also owned circa 1982 no date glossies.

By the way, the dial on this watch is not a service dial. It is an early "OYSTER PERPETUAL DATE" dial. As I mentioned in another post, I can't explain why this dial made it onto this watch. I would suggest that there are really only two possibilities. One, it is original to the watch, or two, it was replaced at some point by a dealer or former owner.

[0nly5iv3Digits]

Originally Posted by springer

If fairness to collectors that might be reading this thread now or many years in the future, let me offer my comments regarding your post.

Glossy dials could be found as early as 1982, I've owned four or five and I know of many other forum members that have also owned circa 1982 no date glossies.

By the way, the dial on this watch is not a service dial. It is an early "OYSTER PERPETUAL DATE" dial. As I mentioned in another post, I can't explain why this dial made it onto this watch. I would suggest that there are really only two possibilities. One, it is original to the watch, or two, it was replaced at some point by a dealer or former owner.

Now this is interesting. Why would Rolex have gone from "glossy" back to "matte"? The progression tends to be the other way around. I don't doubt your experience, as I haven't owned an original 16750 with gloss dial in those early years - only matte dials. I suspect this phenomena may fall into the more nuanced case of Rolex dials "sitting in the factory" for years at a time before being cased up.

What do you think?

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by 0nly5iv3Digits

Why would Rolex have gone from "glossy" back to "matte"?

I don't think anyone suggested that sequence. The early glossy WGS dials were the no-date version, and @springer seems to be suggesting that some of them were contemporaneous with later matte dials.

[pnwwatches]

Originally Posted by springer

If fairness to collectors that might be reading this thread now or many years in the future, let me offer my comments regarding your post.

Glossy dials could be found as early as 1982, I've owned four or five and I know of many other forum members that have also owned circa 1982 no date glossies.

By the way, the dial on this watch is not a service dial. It is an early "OYSTER PERPETUAL DATE" dial. As I mentioned in another post, I can't explain why this dial made it onto this watch. I would suggest that there are really only two possibilities. One, it is original to the watch, or two, it was replaced at some point by a dealer or former owner.

Oh interesting. I'd thought that there was no possibility that a glossy date dial would be original to a GMT Master of this serial. So do you think it's more likely than not that this is the original dial on this watch?