Can someone please help with a dial check?

[RoyalOac]

I purchased a 31mm datejust with vignette dial from a well reviewed dealer. I was told it was factory dial and purchased it with no b&p. Upon close inspection and asking third party knowledgeable WIS, the question are the diamond markers. The “prongs” they say look aftermarket because it is too thin and the way the marker housing looks. I have attached close up of the prong from the watch I purchased vs what I am seeing online for same ref. diamond marker dial from other sources like WatchChest. I personally notice the shape differences like the chamfer.

Does anyone see anything else questionable?

Thank you

[KatGirl]

Pics aren’t showing up, for me. I would take that watch to an AD, and ask them to look at it. They should know how the diamonds should be set. Good luck.

Kat


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[gamingdoctor]

Originally Posted by KatGirl

Pics aren’t showing up, for me. I would take that watch to an AD, and ask them to look at it. They should know how the diamonds should be set. Good luck.

Kat


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This may depend on the AD. I have full confidence that the people at my AD wouldn't know the difference.

[RoyalOac]

Originally Posted by KatGirl

Pics aren’t showing up, for me. I would take that watch to an AD, and ask them to look at it. They should know how the diamonds should be set. Good luck.

Kat


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Thats strange, it shows up on my phone and laptop

[Maleg]

Originally Posted by KatGirl

Pics aren’t showing up, for me. I would take that watch to an AD, and ask them to look at it. They should know how the diamonds should be set. Good luck.

Kat


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My AD thought my mom's 6917 was a fake because it didn't look like the modern DJ's. I doubt a lot of SA's would know the nuances of a 20+ year old dial.

[TonyD]

That is a tough call. Adding diamond dials is one of the most popular things I see on used Rolex in less than reputable places. I'm no expert but I normally won't look at a diamond dial unless its a full set from one of the known sellers. Be safe and good luck.

[train-time]

The prongs on the dial in question do appear to be thinner that the pictures of the one from Watch Chest. Not sure which is genuine, but there is a difference. Perhaps they changed over the years.

[INC]

I had a 16233 with a dial like this. It was definitely original. I'm not sure if the diamonds are the right size because of the size difference, but I think they might be OK.

As far as I can see, this dial is faded, with a yellow tint, just like the one I had. So this vignette is definitely not new, as this shading takes time to appear. So I THINK; if the diamonds are all original, then it's almost impossible for the vignette to be a fake. I'm not sure about that, but as far as I can see, adding a vignette like this to a fake watch, or faking a dial with this kind of vignette, is relatively new. But replacing a black dial watch with diamonds like this with this vigette? No, it doesn't seem reasonable to me. Plus, it's a solid gold watch, so why would anyone replace a factory diamond applicated dial to a fake vignette?

[ArtNouveau]

At a glance I don’t think that is an original Rolex dial but I’m no expert. The display windows on 47th St Diamond District are full of real Rolex modified with gaudy gems.

[RoyalOac]

Originally Posted by train-time

The prongs on the dial in question do appear to be thinner that the pictures of the one from Watch Chest. Not sure which is genuine, but there is a difference. Perhaps they changed over the years.

There’s definitely a difference and I’m inclined to say the fatter prongs are original since I have yet to come across another diamond marker with slimmer prongs, and all of them are wider like WatchChest’s.

Originally Posted by INC

I had a 16233 with a dial like this. It was definitely original. I'm not sure if the diamonds are the right size because of the size difference, but I think they might be OK.

As far as I can see, this dial is faded, with a yellow tint, just like the one I had. So this vignette is definitely not new, as this shading takes time to appear. So I THINK; if the diamonds are all original, then it's almost impossible for the vignette to be a fake. I'm not sure about that, but as far as I can see, adding a vignette like this to a fake watch, or faking a dial with this kind of vignette, is relatively new. But replacing a black dial watch with diamonds like this with this vigette? No, it doesn't seem reasonable to me. Plus, it's a solid gold watch, so why would anyone replace a factory diamond applicated dial to a fake vignette?

Thank you for your opinion.

[INC]

With pleasure!

Originally Posted by RoyalOac

There’s definitely a difference and I’m inclined to say the fatter prongs are original since I have yet to come across another diamond marker with slimmer prongs, and all of them are wider like WatchChest’s.

As far as I know there was two gemsets:





Both are original, but I can not tell when these were used or which partucal watch are belonged to. I BELIEVE the smaller watch had the larger diamonds, but I am no expert in this area.

[RoyalOac]

Originally Posted by INC

With pleasure!



As far as I know there was two gemsets:





Both are original, but I can not tell when these were used or which partucal watch are belonged to. I BELIEVE the smaller watch had the larger diamonds, but I am no expert in this area.

That is correct, there is a square diamond surround (your first photo) and a octagonal one (your second photo).

The second watch definitely furthers my suspicion because the triangular “teeth” prongs that hold the diamonds are indeed wider than the one on my dial. Your dial prongs are what Im seeing consistently in any search for diamond markers.





As you can see, the “teeth” are thin and the octagon also does not look like the same shape. The chamfer is wider on mine

[RoyalOac]

Attachment 1479955

The one Im seeing consistently and seems original (green arrow)

Versus the one I have (red arrow)

[thesharkfactor]

I'm no expert on 5digit DJ, but if somone asked me I'd say that was a genuine dial with aftermarket settings.

[omar-rye]

Send it over to Rolex and they’ll let you know in about 30 mins. You can then decline or accept their overhaul service

[georgekart]

I'm not an expert on gemset dials, but I think that the dials that had T SWISS MADE T hade tritium markers around the diamonds. Sort of like this one.
Otherwise it should have tritium around the diamonds, just SWISS MADE and hands without tritium. Correct me if I'm wrong. Probably better off asking the vintage section, TBH.

[KatGirl]

Originally Posted by Maleg

My AD thought my mom's 6917 was a fake because it didn't look like the modern DJ's. I doubt a lot of SA's would know the nuances of a 20+ year old dial.

Good point. Finally saw the pics . Looks nice to me, but I don’t know those nuances either.

Kat


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[RoyalOac]

Originally Posted by omar-rye

Send it over to Rolex and they’ll let you know in about 30 mins. You can then decline or accept their overhaul service

Do they do authentication without service?

[RoyalOac]

Originally Posted by georgekart

I'm not an expert on gemset dials, but I think that the dials that had T SWISS MADE T hade tritium markers around the diamonds. Sort of like this one.
Otherwise it should have tritium around the diamonds, just SWISS MADE and hands without tritium. Correct me if I'm wrong. Probably better off asking the vintage section, TBH.

Will do!

[omar-rye]

Originally Posted by RoyalOac

Do they do authentication without service?

They do offer an authentication service for a fee, which I believe is around $150.

What I’m referring to though, is going to RSC for a service quote, which is free. A Rolex watchmaker will inspect the watch, usually taking about half an hour to an hour, and then provide a written quote. When my wife’s Datejust went in for one, the quote noted that the crystal was non original and included the cost to replace it with an OEM one. I decided to go ahead with a full service + the crystal, but it’s entirely up to you to walk away.

[RoyalOac]

Originally Posted by omar-rye

They do offer an authentication service for a fee, which I believe is around $150.

What I’m referring to though, is going to RSC for a service quote, which is free. A Rolex watchmaker will inspect the watch, usually taking about half an hour to an hour, and then provide a written quote. When my wife’s Datejust went in for one, the quote noted that the crystal was non original and included the cost to replace it with an OEM one. I decided to go ahead with a full service + the crystal, but it’s entirely up to you to walk away.

Thank you for the information

[INC]

Originally Posted by RoyalOac

The one Im seeing consistently and seems original (green arrow)

At this magnification, I see MAJOR differences; the shape and angles are completely different. However, there are two very striking differences:

- in the case of the "green" the diamond is fixed with four SAME and sophisticated fasteners, while in the "red" there are four completely different and rather unpretentious looking "things" soldered terribly unpretentiously to some "round thing", which is not even exist on the "green".

- the diamond is completely visible on the "green", only the fasteners cover it a little, while in the red it looks as if there is some kind of "round thing" on it, which covers a part of it. And I don't think Rolex, or even a less sophisticated manufacturer would do something like that.

It's strange, but it still could even be that the vignette is original, and the diamonds are fake. Consequently, I agree with Omar, it's worth looking at this dial at an AD.

[RoyalOac]

Originally Posted by INC

At this magnification, I see MAJOR differences; the shape and angles are completely different. However, there are two very striking differences:

- in the case of the "green" the diamond is fixed with four SAME and sophisticated fasteners, while in the "red" there are four completely different and rather unpretentious looking "things" soldered terribly unpretentiously to some "round thing", which is not even exist on the "green".

- the diamond is completely visible on the "green", only the fasteners cover it a little, while in the red it looks as if there is some kind of "round thing" on it, which covers a part of it. And I don't think Rolex, or even a less sophisticated manufacturer would do something like that.

It's strange, but it still could even be that the vignette is original, and the diamonds are fake. Consequently, I agree with Omar, it's worth looking at this dial at an AD.

These were exactly my observations and I will have to take it to RSC in NYC to confirm. I stopped by a Bucherer and the manager said to stop by RSC NY and ask for appraisal report for $150 as a workaround since they do not do “authenticity checks”.

As another member suggested on, which option would be better to confirm dial authenticity? Do I get the $150 appraisal or a quote for an overhaul?

[0nly5iv3Digits]

Interesting. Curious what comes of this.

[RoyalOac]

If this ends not being a factory vignette dial as advertised, I will be very disappointed, since I believe I paid a premium for it. The seller does have a good, near-perfect chrono24 certified reputation (if that means much), perfect online reviews, and a booth on 47th, so I hope I was not played.

[KatGirl]

Originally Posted by RoyalOac

If this ends not being a factory vignette dial as advertised, I will be very disappointed, since I believe I paid a premium for it. The seller does have a good, near-perfect chrono24 certified reputation (if that means much), perfect online reviews, and a booth on 47th, so I hope I was not played.

Is it possible the seller was fooled as well. I would have it authenticated by RSC. Another idea is to have the diamonds looked at by an expert, since it’s well known that Rolex only uses the best quality diamonds on their dials. Please keep us posted.

Kat


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[ChronoZach]

Op, that dial does not look right to me, if you look at any Rolex diamond dial the color is always bright white, never yellow or off white. They use the highest quality diamonds in the world. The diamonds always match 100% look at a pave dial how the diamonds match.

The five digit DJ have allot of variety in the dials, there are some dials that are very different and rare. DJ dials today are all the same even the diamond ones.

If it bothers that much, RSC will definitely know how that piece left the factory.

Cheers,

[Jackie Daytona]

Originally Posted by Maleg

My AD thought my mom's 6917 was a fake because it didn't look like the modern DJ's. I doubt a lot of SA's would know the nuances of a 20+ year old dial.

Very true. Had the same happen at an AD here in Nashville about 15 years ago. Briefly argued and the manager came over and corrected the SA, but he seemed very sure of himself.

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by thesharkfactor

I'm no expert on 5digit DJ, but if somone asked me I'd say that was a genuine dial with aftermarket settings.

I'm with you on this.

I've yet to see a T Swiss Made T dial with those settings.

All have had the square setting and lume pips.

[RoyalOac]

Originally Posted by Devildog

I'm with you on this.

I've yet to see a T Swiss Made T dial with those settings.

All have had the square setting and lume pips.

https://watchchest.com/rolex-datejust-68278-9889.html


Watchchest has one up now for sale. Ive seen a few tbh.