Appropriate discount to ask for

[ppierce]

What is a good starting point when approaching a grey market dealer without insulting them?

[Maleg]

Depends on the watch and the desirability. What are you buying?

[ppierce]

Couple of options DJ41 jubilee smooth I typically see for 13-14k

Batgirl I see for 16-17


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[Maleg]

You can probably negotiate a discount on a DJ41 if it's been sitting at the gray dealer a long time, but I doubt they will move much on a BLNR.

[Calatrava r]

If you are polite, you cannot insult them. All they can say is no. My experience on the used market is asking prices are fairly close to what they want to sell for, and moderate discounts are more available to their regular customers. The used market has so many dealers and is actually quite competitive in that newer players in the used watch market arena price at below market to establish themselves.

[Bazil]

Insult away, their prices are no doubt insulting to start with .. all depends how much you have to spend, if,it doesn’t meet that price then move onto another grey dealer, trust me there’s enough of them ..

[Gearjockey]

Originally Posted by ppierce

What is a good starting point when approaching a grey market dealer without insulting them?

Insulting them??

You’ll feel insulted next year when the same model is 10-15% less than what you may have paid currently and you’ll resent that grey/secondary dealer.

Think of it as protecting the dealer/customer relationship by offering 10-15% less than asking.

[Tubeguy]

Being aggressive rarely works to get you a discount. I own a company that sells expensive stuff and there are times where we cannot give a dime off and times where we can.

I buy a lot of stuff. I usually ask the watch dealer what the best cash price would be, paying by wire, and see what they say. If they say no, I usually try to break the ice with a little humor about hiding it from my wife or I have to feed ten kids. And maybe let them know you were about to pull the trigger on a watch elsewhere. There's no shortage of this stuff. They know that.

[ArtNouveau]

I had an honest conversation some years back with one of the bigger watch dealers on 47th St. He threw out some of the basic margins he goes by when buying and selling. I think in most cases you could offer 10-15% off their asking price, all they can say is no.

[omar-rye]

Originally Posted by Bazil

Insult away, their prices are no doubt insulting to start with .. all depends how much you have to spend, if,it doesn’t meet that price then move onto another grey dealer, trust me there’s enough of them ..

[GST15]

You should be able to get the DJ from an AD with very little if any wait and save yourself a few thousand, and be sure that you are getting a genuine watch.

Not hard to find a case where someone bought from a grey dealer only to find out when the watch goes in for service that it is fake. Not to blame the dealer, as some fakes are so good that they are unrecognizable to even the grey dealer.

I waited about a year for my Batgirl recently. My advice is be patient, buy from an AD, and you will always know exactly what you have.

Good luck

[KatGirl]

We’ve heard you can order your choice of DJ configuration at an AD currently. Try that first.

Kat


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[Onesnotenough123]

Originally Posted by ppierce

Couple of options DJ41 jubilee smooth I typically see for 13-14k

Batgirl I see for 16-17


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I’ve done my homework on this forum and have found MyWatch, Takuya, Solana to be the best prices out of the preferred dealers. I’ve bought two from MyWatch and one from Takuya. Both great service and trustworthy. Solana has good pricing also but they are wire only unless you go in shop in Cali.

The dealers here who have even crazier pricing definitely have room to negotiate. Worst thing they can say is no. It helps to do your homework and say, “I’ve noticed this watch sitting for X amount of time and am willing to give you X amount for out the door pricing shipped”.

[PenDelicate]

If your starting offer doesn't insult them, it's not low enough.

And don't start with an offer: start with listing every ding, scuff, abrasion, poorly polished edge, "funny winding feel", hands that don't hit the indexes perfectly, un-centered crown at 12 o'clock, bracelet-stretch, clasp-looseness, and case-back scratches. Hold it to your ear to listen to it, stare him straight in the eye, shake your head and say, "Needs a service. Badly." Count the links: any missing, just tut-tut-tut. Is that a scratch on the crystal? Oh, dear, oh, dear.

Offer him 50% of his asking price and whatever - whatever - he answers, say immediately, "What??? For THIS??!?!"

THAT: is your starting point.

Then the real negotiation begins.

You're concerning about insulting him? Your job is to absolutely crucify him, to put him and all his children out of business and on the bread-line. And if you get a watch of it out, all the better!

[Bartolo]

Originally Posted by Gearjockey

You’ll feel insulted next year when the same model is 10-15% less than what you may have paid currently and you’ll resent that grey/secondary dealer.

Why would anyone who know how the market works be insulted when market conditions are different a year later?

I know -- TikTok is full of people complaining that their graymarket dealers from whom they bought a Daytona in 2021 for $50k won't give them their $50k back for it today. But that's a them problem not a dealer issue.

[Bartolo]

Originally Posted by PenDelicate

Offer him 50% of his asking price and whatever - whatever - he answers, say immediately, "What??? For THIS??!?!"

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by PenDelicate

If your starting offer doesn't insult them, it's not low enough.

Funny, but more than a grain of truth therein.

More insulting would be a time waster with no intention of buying.

Be measured, be polite and start negotiating. You'll get a feel for it.

[racerx]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

If you are polite, you cannot insult them. All they can say is no. My experience on the used market is asking prices are fairly close to what they want to sell for, and moderate discounts are more available to their regular customers. The used market has so many dealers and is actually quite competitive in that newer players in the used watch market arena price at below market to establish themselves.

What happens if one is not polite as you say?

[BraveBold]

It is completely dependent on the going price for the watch and condition (and reputation/risk).

Personally, I typically don’t bother with someone asking an amount far disconnected from market. Not usually worth my time making an offer. If I do make an offer, it will look lowball but that’s on the seller. In those cases I am most likely to even go in below market…

Conversely, someone with a competitive / reasonable ask, I am willing to transact near or at their ask. Though I always make an attempt to pay less than ask.

Finally, my walkaway never changes.

Have a number in mind (hopefully based on info) and work from there…

[Hkspwrsche]

In this market while it is drifting down 10% off a 10k watch might be more than all of the profit? Id be reasonable and friendly and see where it goes.

[daysky1]

For me if I go gray Market I negotiate unless it's with David SW then I feel it's worth the extra because of his high quality reputation but others I look at the retail price at 15% over and that's my starting point for negotiating if they can meet me at that point I buy The Watch if they can't I'll negotiate up to a maximum of 25% over retail if they can't meet me at that point I walk away unless it's an exceptional watch that I really really want then I might negotiate for a little higher percentage but you got to draw the line somewhere and if they can't meet you at that point I say 25% over retail is plenty and of course as I've already stated 15% over retail or less I buy it on the spot. Of course that is for an unborn full set now if it's multiple years old then I have to go back to the drawing board.

[TheHulk]

Originally Posted by daysky1

For me if I go gray Market I negotiate unless it's with David SW then I feel it's worth the extra because of his high quality reputation but others I look at the retail price at 15% over and that's my starting point for negotiating if they can meet me at that point I buy The Watch if they can't I'll negotiate up to a maximum of 25% over retail if they can't meet me at that point I walk away unless it's an exceptional watch that I really really want then I might negotiate for a little higher percentage but you got to draw the line somewhere and if they can't meet you at that point I say 25% over retail is plenty and of course as I've already stated 15% over retail or less I buy it on the spot. Of course that is for an unborn full set now if it's multiple years old then I have to go back to the drawing board.

Not much negotiating with DSW. The reputation is obviously great but the prices and the trade values are absolutely absurd!! I’m in absolute awe that buy from there.

[ChronoZach]

Ask? There is no harm and the worst thing they can say is , NO! I don’t think $500-1000 is unrealistic. The are plenty of gray dealers out there so you can always move on to the next one. Remember to buy the dealer first, not the watch or the deal.

Best of luck,

[G23]

Undercut the hell out of them. Who cares. The reality is the market is well below MSRP on pretty much everything. You dont owe them anything.

[geoach]

Originally Posted by TheHulk

Not much negotiating with DSW. The reputation is obviously great but the prices and the trade values are absolutely absurd!! I’m in absolute awe that buy from there.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

I spent forty years in sales and when someone predictably defaulted to asking me for a discount I would answer, “Why? Based on what?” Often people couldn’t articulate a reason why they felt a discount was appropriate other than stammering that they simply wanted to pay less for what I had. Those that could articulate a logical reason for me giving up margin had a better chance of getting it. So be prepared to answer the question if it comes.

[brandrea]

Sometimes a good opener is in the form of a question like: “I see your ____ listed for ____. I have cash and am a serious buyer, what is your best price?

Of course, you have to be prepared to be a serious buyer

[joli160]

Originally Posted by PenDelicate

If your starting offer doesn't insult them, it's not low enough.

And don't start with an offer: start with listing every ding, scuff, abrasion, poorly polished edge, "funny winding feel", hands that don't hit the indexes perfectly, un-centered crown at 12 o'clock, bracelet-stretch, clasp-looseness, and case-back scratches. Hold it to your ear to listen to it, stare him straight in the eye, shake your head and say, "Needs a service. Badly." Count the links: any missing, just tut-tut-tut. Is that a scratch on the crystal? Oh, dear, oh, dear.

Offer him 50% of his asking price and whatever - whatever - he answers, say immediately, "What??? For THIS??!?!"

THAT: is your starting point.

Then the real negotiation begins.

You're concerning about insulting him? Your job is to absolutely crucify him, to put him and all his children out of business and on the bread-line. And if you get a watch of it out, all the better!

this is going to work

[77T]

Originally Posted by ppierce

Appropriate discount to ask for
What is a good starting point when approaching a grey market dealer without insulting them?

% is what you asked about methinks...

That is not a static number. It depends upon the 4-M's of horology markets: Metal, Model, Mode, Method, + the dealer. Other factors are condition, service history, age, time on the market, and FOREX (if an international deal)

Metal:
TT is better for a buyer's discount. Then RG/WG/YG...Pt is fiddly. SS is least discounted.

Model:
High production models with average demand are better. Like a TT DJ; but limited production, low demand like a YM37 is good too.

Mode:
This relates to how you buy. Like B&M, digital platform (eBay, Chrono, etc), social media (FB Moda, etc), and forums like TRF or others. Each has its own sales cost/fee structure.

Method:
This is how the deal is funded. Cash, Trade-In, Combination of the two, Credit Card, On the books, Off the books, etc. This affects the dealer's reported income and financial fees.

Lastly, the dealer...know your dealer well. This affects the approach you take. Since you don't want to insult the person that tells me a bit about your own social style. Your approach isn't something I can assess - but a frontal one may be best. But consider the dealer's own social style - respect can pay dividends - a bold, naked low-ball gets poor reactions.

Best:
"I don't want to put you off by making a low ball offer and I do like the watch - you did a great job in the listing - I know many who've bought on our forum - are you flexible enough on this timepiece to accept $______?"

Worse:
"These are dropping like a rock. If you will take $______ , I need to know today because I'm looking at XX others.'

Before you even design an offer you need to know how the model is performing in the secondary market now. Homework...

Good luck


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[willywilson]

I've recently attempted to get a discount on a grey market OP 41 green. No dice. One agreed to throw in free shipping.