6196p may not be the best modern Calatrava

[WatchYoSelf]

Like many, upon the release of the 6196p, I believed the watch to be the best of the modern Calatravas. However, now that the dust has settled. I’m not so sure.

My issue is with its styling. The Calatrava is intended to feature classic design, unaffected by trends. And while this watch is a direct descendent of the 96, some of its elements seem faddish. Sure, the 6196’s blackened hour markers look cool now, but I’m not sure I’ll feel that way in ten years. Same goes for its salmon dial.

The Calatrava should be a quiet watch. Stealthy. An IYKYK kinda thing. Unfortunately, the 6196p may be loud enough that it gets attention, just like a Nautilus or Aquanaut.

I’m not sure I like that.

So what’s the alternative? Perhaps the 6119g or 5227g.

[subtona]

Doesn’t seem trendy to me?

Salmon dials have a strong historic presence and the blackened hour markers make the watch imho.

Great article on history of salmon dials here: https://www.acollectedman.com/blogs/...ial-came-to-be

I believe in this one


Ps this 5950 w salmon dial and blackened hour markers is among my favorites.
(…Ability to attach pics has disappeared for me. I suppose part of the persistent glitches I have been experiencing with the site ?)

[GGGMT]

Omg, i must have this watch. Trendy not trendy it is sublime. Full stop.


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[bp1000]

Order is in for me too. It’s fantastic.

If they did breguet numerals and a railroad track on running seconds it would have been a dream. But what we have is very nice.

[ts3]

While I think 6196P is a nice watch I am not a fan of that movement compared to manual movements from some of the competition.

Personally I'd likely go 5107P black for that sort of money and I am still ok with my little 3998P as well. Not sure if they qualify as modern or neo vintage though.

[Vasco]

I don't personally believe it's part of a fad. I think it answers to the Calatrava definition well in the current context.

We all have our style perspective, our cultural background, etc but Salmon dials were rare but already used a very long time ago (Royal oak...) or the Patek 5450 (Advanced Research started a new trend in the modern era), etc...

For instance, blue dials are totally classics to me, have always been, close to silver or black. Nevertheless, in the mid 2010's some people on forums said that it was a fad. It wasn't.

Moreover, The classics from the 2000's and prior decades have faced a significant change in definition, in standards. The colors and dial materials used since the last 15 years have followed the lifestyle people adopt today, (much) more casual (whether we like it or not).

I think the movement is a very fine new introduction. The shape of the bridges, the very nice angle finishing, the thinness, the improved accuracy and PR (2x barrels). I've hold many of the competitors, the finishing in main traditional manufactures is a tad less well performed, thicker calibers and simpler bridge cuts.

Hence the 6196P could completely answer to the current definition of an elegant classics. It isn't my stand but I understand it and find some versions of casual classics very attractive (5205 blue for instance thanks to the contrasted white markings, 5930G or P). The 5960/1A could have answered well (with a strap though), 5326G, etc...

[tigerpac]

Price is aggressive but I bet it looks nice in the metal.

[subtona]

interest registered.



updated, classic and timeless.

[Yobrooks]

Love it. I do feel it's understated and elegant. It's going to be a very sought after reference. My AD said she's gotten many calls already.

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[Vipes]

I love it also. I’m interested to see how it fits on smaller wrists like mine. It’s 38mm but the lugs don’t curve downward as much, similar to the 5196.

[Calatrava r]

I love this reference too and hope to buy one at some point. I think a lot of folks think this watch will trade at a premium secondary going forward so getting one from the AD is the way to go if you can.

[SoylentGreenChi]

Originally Posted by Vipes

I love it also. I’m interested to see how it fits on smaller wrists like mine. It’s 38mm but the lugs don’t curve downward as much, similar to the 5196.

The 5196 fits like a dinner plate on my 16.5 cm wrist with the straight case and lugs. I find the 5227 a much better fit though it is a larger diameter on paper.

[Vipes]

Originally Posted by SoylentGreenChi

The 5196 fits like a dinner plate on my 16.5 cm wrist with the straight case and lugs. I find the 5227 a much better fit though it is a larger diameter on paper.

That’s unfortunate (I guess fortunate for my bank account). I wish the case was similar to the 5226 or 5170 where the lugs turn down more. I’m thinking it may wear similar to the 6119.

[WatchYoSelf]

Originally Posted by SoylentGreenChi

The 5196 fits like a dinner plate on my 16.5 cm wrist with the straight case and lugs. I find the 5227 a much better fit though it is a larger diameter on paper.

Really interesting. So sounds like the 5227 may fit smaller on the wrist than the 6196p, even though the 5227 is a millimeter larger.

[GB-man]

I like it but would have preferred something other than salmon. Patek has really given us a lot of it lately and it’s lost its allure a bit for me.

[SoylentGreenChi]

Originally Posted by WatchYoSelf

Really interesting. So sounds like the 5227 may fit smaller on the wrist than the 6196p, even though the 5227 is a millimeter larger.

Likely, yes. 5196 and the 6119 wear quite large because they are flat and the lugs flair almost straight out. I have the same problem with the 5396 annual calendar, which lists as 38.5 diameter but wears similarly large as the 5196 and 6119 because of the flat case and straight lugs. By contrast, the 5227 and 5205 wear beautifully on my 16.5 mm wrist, even though they are listed as 39mm and 40 mm, respectively. It's wild how much of a difference case shape makes. I was shocked when I put on the 5396 and 5205 during the same visit to the AD. I was certain the 38.5 mm 5396 would be my choice because of the smaller size, but the 5205 wore so, so much better on my wrist. 5146G annual calendar was even better.

[WatchYoSelf]

Originally Posted by SoylentGreenChi

Likely, yes. 5196 and the 6119 wear quite large because they are flat and the lugs flair almost straight out. I have the same problem with the 5396 annual calendar, which lists as 38.5 diameter but wears similarly large as the 5196 and 6119 because of the flat case and straight lugs. By contrast, the 5227 and 5205 wear beautifully on my 16.5 mm wrist, even though they are listed as 39mm and 40 mm, respectively. It's wild how much of a difference case shape makes. I was shocked when I put on the 5396 and 5205 during the same visit to the AD. I was certain the 38.5 mm 5396 would be my choice because of the smaller size, but the 5205 wore so, so much better on my wrist. 5146G annual calendar was even better.

I’ve had a similar experience. The 5227 and 5205 work well with my wrist.

The 6119 and 5396 were alright, but the fit wasn’t as perfect. Larger, as you mentioned.

Perhaps Patek isn’t truly returning to smaller Calatravas with the 38mm 6196p.

[jgottsman11]

lol trying too hard with this one.

[MILGAUSS88]

I was disappointed in the 6196p.
I thought it was a nice touch that the 5196 p had the unique Breguet hour markers versus the Baton markers on the Gold versions. I assume both will have the Baton markers when they release the gold versions. The 5196p dial seems a lot more intricate.

On the new 6119, they released it at 39 mm whereas this one was released at 38 mm. I wish they had used the same size for this one as well.

Unfortunately, whenever I hear the word salmon dial, my mind instantly pictures fish meat. Why can't they call it a copper dial.

I do like the black hands and hour markers. But the combination of the white case, salmon dial, and black hands does not seem cohesive to me. I think this would have been a better look with a rose gold case.

[sinkholeninja]

Had I not recently bought Chopard LUC 1860 salmon dial, for which I was on a waiting list for more than a year, I would most certainly buy 6196p. It’s a beautiful piece imo.

[sinkholeninja]

Had I not recently bought Chopard LUC 1860 salmon dial, for which I was on a waiting list for more than a year, I would most certainly buy 6196p. It’s a beautiful piece imo.

[subtona]

pic is warranted

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by subtona

pic is warranted

That's a very nice dial, which reminds me of the same colour combination in the 5270P. Hope you get yours

[Gelateria]

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

I was disappointed in the 6196p.
I thought it was a nice touch that the 5196 p had the unique Breguet hour markers versus the Baton markers on the Gold versions. I assume both will have the Baton markers when they release the gold versions. The 5196p dial seems a lot more intricate.

On the new 6119, they released it at 39 mm whereas this one was released at 38 mm. I wish they had used the same size for this one as well.

Unfortunately, whenever I hear the word salmon dial, my mind instantly pictures fish meat. Why can't they call it a copper dial.

I do like the black hands and hour markers. But the combination of the white case, salmon dial, and black hands does not seem cohesive to me. I think this would have been a better look with a rose gold case.

To be fair patek themselves called it the rose gilt opaline, not salmon
I think it's pretty great as it is, but damn that 9.3mm...why would it increase its thickness I have no idea
The 30-255 is brilliant technically and aesthetically, I consider it one of the best mass produced (if you can call that) manual calibre. Shame it reeks of cost cutting given so many internal angles possible but they just round it up. That's a problem stating from 6119 tho

[ts3]

Originally Posted by Gelateria

To be fair patek themselves called it the rose gilt opaline, not salmon
I think it's pretty great as it is, but damn that 9.3mm...why would it increase its thickness I have no idea
The 30-255 is brilliant technically and aesthetically, I consider it one of the best mass produced (if you can call that) manual calibre. Shame it reeks of cost cutting given so many internal angles possible but they just round it up. That's a problem stating from 6119 tho

Care to elaborate why the movement is brilliant technically?

I for one don't think it looks all that good and not because of no internal angles.

[Gelateria]

Originally Posted by ts3

Care to elaborate why the movement is brilliant technically?

I for one don't think it looks all that good and not because of no internal angles.

I guess to each his own about calibre looks so I'm not going to argue

As for technical details, see sjx's in depth analysis about the calibre
https://watchesbysjx.com/2021/10/pat...19-review.html

[ChetBaker]

I think the 5212 is the best modern calatrava. Unique complication, fresh dial, strap monster, stepped lugs.

[WatchYoSelf]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

I think the 5212 is the best modern calatrava. Unique complication, fresh dial, strap monster, stepped lugs.

Bonus points for it being steel as well.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by Gelateria

I guess to each his own about calibre looks so I'm not going to argue

As for technical details, see sjx's in depth analysis about the calibre
https://watchesbysjx.com/2021/10/pat...19-review.html

Thanks for the link which is helpful.

To me this is more a case of Patek having caught up with some of the competition rather than an example for ground breaking innovation / things that haven't been done before in similar fashion.

[jyaki]

Is the dial completely flat or does it recess towards the edges? I can't tell if the shadows around the edges are from the case or the shape of the dial.